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Axle Talk This section is for all your other axle talks, D44, D60, 14bolt, Ford 9" etc. If you have a write up please post it, if you have a axle question ask away.

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Old 12-20-2010, 09:22 PM   #26
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If welded properly, you can keep the warpage to a bare minimum.

The thing about trusses is they are nearly worthless, unless they go all the way to the knuckle ball. Most, if not all of the housings I've bent or bought bent were bent outside the spring perch, not in the middle where most people truss.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:40 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Fordzuki View Post
If welded properly, you can keep the warpage to a bare minimum.
It has been years, but this has been my previous experience. Although it is more work, stress can be relieved by penning. Without a method to check for alignment, you really do not know where you relative to warpage, welding sections or 100%.

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The thing about trusses is they are nearly worthless, unless they go all the way to the knuckle ball. Most, if not all of the housings I've bent or bought bent were bent outside the spring perch, not in the middle where most people truss.
I find this interesting. It is the first time I have heard it mentioned. Kinda goes back for the need to checking the alignment of the housing. I wonder how many people have had the same experience as you have?

Wayne
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:43 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog1 View Post
I find this interesting. It is the first time I have heard it mentioned. Kinda goes back for the need to checking the alignment of the housing. I wonder how many people have had the same experience as you have?

Wayne
In my last post (#23) I have the link attached to the Lowrange (trailtough) knuckle ball kit. bending at the ball ends is very common on these axles as well as toy fronts. These simple braces add tremendous strength to a normally weak area. On my front I will have my truss tubeing go all the way to the ends with knuckle ball gussets added top and bottom which will solve any bending problems.

Again, most of the time bending these is from jumping or being really hard on them with 33" tires or bigger as there is a lot more unsprung weight on them. From normal wheeling and even up to pretty hard wheeling, the normal truss is enough to stop the most common area of bending which is the long side tube.
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Old 12-21-2010, 11:56 AM   #29
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catzuk, I did review the link you provided. The ball gussets look pretty simple and straight forward in their install. I was not aware that it was real common for the housings to bend in that area, but that just shows my limited experience in wheeling.

I do not intentionally jump my Zuk, and have no plans to go to 33" tires or bigger. I really do not think I am hard on my Zuk, mostly just running trails or the Mall as a DD. I do slow down at the speed bumps.

I will truss tubing go all the way to the spring pads. And while the housing is on the bench, add the knuckle ball gussets added top and bottom. If for no other reason, just for bragging rights.

What do you consider the tolerance for the straightness of the housing?

Wayne
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:52 PM   #30
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as for the knuckle ball trusses what do other people use is 3/8ths plate good enough. when shaving the pumpkin should i weld front and back first and then the sides to help eliminate warpage or whats the best way to go about this thanks adam
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:52 AM   #31
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reddog, There has been many discussions over the allowed tolerences of these axles, but I haven't seen a great official answer yet. Many will have different technical ideas on it, but personally I have not seen very many stock zuk housings that were very far out at all. I try to keep everything within 1/16 of an inch (i don't measure in mm very often , but have seen zuk housings at over a 1/4" out without any real issues. I know on others like dana's, there can be 1/4" stock and that is considered ok by many.

If just welding a truss, don't over think or even stress over it. Just take your time, don't rush and make small welds no more than an inch and a half at a time and rotate so that your next weld is on the opposite end from the first and so on. Like criss crossing your lug nuts. If still uncomfortable with it, preheat the whole housing with a shop heater, that way there is less instant heat in one spot on a cold housing.

trmex, when I do a shave job, LOL that just sounds dirty , I leave the 3rd member mounting ring solid untill the end (then grind it smooth). It is very stout and holds everything tight and together. I usually make 4 good tacks to hold plate in place, then start going around in 1" increments, cris crossing, taking my sweet arse time. (knocks on wood) I haven't had any issues so far doing it this way. I also weld completely on the inside as well (to prevent leaks) and have even used jb weld on top of the inside welds to also prevent microscopic leaks. (Hey, I'm no professional pressure vessel ). And I hate leaks! It is tough to weld 1/4 inch plate to the thin housing, but not impossible.

And 3/8's is usually what is used on the knuckle gussets. Some I have seen were 1/2 inch, but thats overkill on these housings.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:57 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catzuk View Post
reddog, There has been many discussions over the allowed tolerences of these axles, but I haven't seen a great official answer yet. Many will have different technical ideas on it, but personally I have not seen very many stock zuk housings that were very far out at all. I try to keep everything within 1/16 of an inch (i don't measure in mm very often , but have seen zuk housings at over a 1/4" out without any real issues. I know on others like dana's, there can be 1/4" stock and that is considered ok by many.
I have searched this and other Forums, hoping to find the information you have posted. I have ask people more than once, and your post excepted, never got an answer. During my many years as a Job Shop, Marine, and Automotive machinist, I have never checked the alignment of anything without knowing what tolerance was acceptable. With out that knowledge, I see no way to have an accurate test bar. You could easily be discarding good usable housings.

My concern is just how critical the alignment is with a lunch box locker. You did state specifically, but I understand your post to include with lockers, in the 1/4-inch. Do I understand correctly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catzuk View Post
If just welding a truss, don't over think or even stress over it. Just take your time, don't rush and make small welds no more than an inch and a half at a time and rotate so that your next weld is on the opposite end from the first and so on. Like criss crossing your lug nuts. If still uncomfortable with it, preheat the whole housing with a shop heater, that way there is less instant heat in one spot on a cold housing.
To add to this, if you were to discover the housing did go out of alignment during the welding process, in all probably you could relieve the stress in the welds using a penning chisel on the welds. This is a common process on crankshafts and some welded structures on ships, to correct misalignment.

I really appreciate your input, Reps given.

Wayne
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:23 AM   #33
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It seems that lunchbox lockers really do not like mis-alignment. They pop a lot when out of true. It seems that (unless your lockers springs are worn out or broken, which happens a lot) a lockright or such will let you know you bent a shaft or housing or both really quickly. It will go from normal driving pops to violent pops and snaps. It will lock and unlock like crazy and at the most weird times and a lot more often. Usually you can see a bent housing if you stand back and simply look at it. It will smile at you . Biggest problem with one being bent though, is you wil break side gears. The pressure in the angle at the spline area will cause cracks in the thin side gears from uneven pressure. ask me how I know. LOL

As for the specs, to my understanding, these type of housings are manufactured different as they are stamped steel put in a jig and robot welded. There really isn't much difference and almost no measureable amount of mis-alighnment between any of the millions that are made. Ones like dana's are cast centers, pressed in tubes welded to cast center with welded ends. A lot to deform and go slightly different between each one made.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:07 PM   #34
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I have no experience with the lunchbox lockers, but I nope to do my install properly with a straight housing. I have experience in setting up gears and such and have the necessary tools. My concern is knowing that lunchbox lockers really do not like mis-alignment of the housing. Considering nothing is perfect, there must be a tolerance on just how perfect the alignment must be. I wonder if just installing the lockers and crossing you fingers is why so many people have problems with them?

My neighbor has a DD CJ with a Detroit locker. He took me for a test drive, and I heard no loud popping, jeep jumping or anything else negative. I read about guys with Zuks saying they do not experience none of these issues. Is it the luck of the draw with straight housings?

I appreciate your sharing your experience and thoughts.

Wayne
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:17 AM   #35
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I wish I could tell you what an acceptable bent tolerance would be. I can tell you that when I bent mine and it was out over 1/4" off center on the long side, my locker wouldn't work at all. I could barely see the bent by just looking down the open end and didn't even know for sure I could say it was bent.
When I made my tool and straightened mine and Andy's I just took a ton of time and made them perfect or at least within .01" I would say.
Jeff doesn't want to even check his and has no issues but I can assure you that all housings are not straight. Just don't know how much off is acceptable. I wish Jeff would let me put my gauge in just to see how much his is off.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:42 AM   #36
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geckocycles, your experience gives a start point of the housings must be less than 1/4-inch off. Thanks, that is helpful.

Wayne
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:06 PM   #37
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if your worried about warpage you could always use JB weld.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
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if your worried about warpage you could always use JB weld.
I am more concerned with the housing being warped before I used the JB Weld. Why waste the JB Weld on a housing that is not aligned to begin with?

Wayne
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:10 PM   #39
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Some trussing I've been using & abusing:
The rear Zuk housing is a Hybrid with drivers side and pass side 3/16 thick 2" X 4" box tubing. Works great for jumping and so far after several years of skying my Zuk's I have yet to bend a rear housing trussed like this:


This is the front housing I built up for jumping last year. It is under my 2.3 liter Beater Zuk that is set up SPUA.


The lower truss is 3/16" 2" X 4" box tubingand the upper truss extends all the way over to the knuckle ball and is 3/8" thick plate steel with holes cut out for the U-bolts to slip through and cradle the housing.


So far there have been no problems bending it even with some pretty high and long jumps.



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Old 01-02-2011, 11:44 PM   #40
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AFTERMARKET4X4 - Very impressive trusses. I gotta say, I did not consider trussing from the bottom.

For my application, I am bargaining to think I am putting too much in to the truss. I do not purposely jump my Zuk. I probably would not bend a stock housing at the Mall. I probably would be just fine with a TT truss, although it would be nice to be different, if for nothing else but bragging rights.

Thanks for the post.

Wayne
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:30 PM   #41
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Front-went with upper and lower



Rear-will get upper only
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:32 PM   #42
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:59 PM   #43
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Thanks for the Post and photos guys. Did you leave drains for the gussets, to avoid rust pockets?

Wayne
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:28 AM   #44
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Whats the purpose of trussing the bottom? It seems like you loose ground clearence for very little added strength.
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:36 AM   #45
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Rock protection
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:10 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Oscello View Post
Whats the purpose of trussing the bottom? It seems like you loose ground clearence for very little added strength.
You seen me jump mine? Eventually I bend every single housing I build, but when I truss the top and bottom it takes much longer. I do not like that it reduces ground clearance, but the lower trussing is necessary.


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Old 02-14-2011, 09:06 PM   #47
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Like most modifications we make, it appears it is a compromise. I think it depends a lot on you use of your Zuki. For my intended use, I think the ground clearence would be of greater value. If my intended use included jumping the Zuki, the bottom truss makes sense.

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Old 02-16-2011, 07:48 PM   #48
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When jumping your vehicle, you will easily bend the ends and the housing like I did

Before





After



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Old 03-25-2011, 03:23 PM   #49
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Pacifier, look nice. Did you do anything special to drain water from the truss?

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Old 03-25-2011, 04:08 PM   #50
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Pacifier, look nice. Did you do anything special to drain water from the truss?

Wayne

It's not welded all the way through, there are 1.5" gaps all the way around the truss.

The same thing was done to my new Yota axles.

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